Electric cars let’s all rush to buy one

The place to discuss everything else..
Post Reply
peterh
Posts: 167
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:57 pm

Electric cars let’s all rush to buy one

Post by peterh » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:24 am

1 Electric Car Bone Yard - France

This is a bone yard near Paris, France with hundreds of electric powered cars. Mind you these are only cars used by the City of Paris and not personal vehicles. All of these have the same issue ... the battery storage cells have given out and need replaced. Why not just replace them you ask? Well two reasons. First, replacement battery storage cells cost more than half the new vehicle cost (this is why for many EV models the price is more approximately double the cost of a petrol/diesel model) and second no landfill or disposal site will accept the batteries. So these green fairy tale electric cars are all sitting in vacant lots while their batteries drain toxins into the ground.

Still think we need to go green???

2 Nissan Leaf – a real story here in Australia

Phillip Carlson bought a Nissan Leaf in August 2012, which cost about $53,500. Its seven years old today, and it’s worth maybe $12,000 - if you can find someone dumb enough to buy it. But, let him tell the story.

“I bought an electric car from Nissan with 5 years warranty on the battery. They claimed 175km range. >From new I only ever got 120km. Now I can BARELY get 35-40km during winter or even 25km if I use the heater. The warranty says the battery is bad if it drops to 8 out of 12 bars, which mine has.

“I took it in and they claim the battery is totally fine and there’s nothing wrong with it and gave me a $33,000 invoice for a new one!!!!! Nissan just won’t listen and I’ve run out of all hope. I paid $53,500 for this car and it’s pretty useless now.” - Phillip Carlson

The $33k quote

Here’s the official battery replacement quote from Lennock Motors in the ACT.


An incredible $29,600 for the replacement battery, $750 to fit it plus GST: that’s $33,385 in total. For a car now worth $12,000? If you are lucky.

Nissan and other carmakers are moaning about the lack of government support for EVs in Australia. And I’d suggest that if you’re a carmaker like Nissan, seemingly hell-bent on taking your small group of EV first adopters in this way, then you simply do not deserve any taxpayer support.

This is a tacit admission by Nissan that the Leaf is a disposable car. A $50,000 disposable car. Which doesn’t seem very environmentally sustainable to me.

Replacing this battery for over $30,000. You could buy about 20,000 litres of petrol for that. Which is enough to drive a similar sized conventional SUV about 400,000 kilometres.

So if you are buying your Leaf EV to save money on fuel, even if you are getting your electricity free from a rooftop solar array, every day, you better hope you get 400,000 k’s out of the battery. Unlikely.

If you don’t, you’re just kidding yourself. And the leaf is about $30,000 more expensive than similar sized conventional SUVs. So make that somewhere closer to 800,000 k’s - to break even, financially. In what universe does that sound like a sound financial plan?

If you’re saving the planet, with your Leaf, it’s even worse: Consigning the Leaf to landfill at seven years of age because it’s grossly uneconomical to repair seems to me like a fairly unsustainable use of the earth’s limited resources. So does throwing away the old battery and replacing it with a new one every seven years.

This is a vital point. EVs and internal combustion are in a race to reduce CO2. And there’s no question: Internal combustion starts off ahead because EVs are filthier to produce - that’s mainly the battery. So, in other words, on a lifecycle assessment basis, EVs start filthy and get cleaner over time, while internal combustion starts cleaner and gets filthier as the K’s mount up.

An ADAC report out of Europe from April 2018 found that equivalent EVs and petrol cars broke even on CO2 (on a lifecycle basis) at about 116,000 kilometres, and after that, EVs crept ahead. That’s based on Germany’s grid composition.

(Australia’s grid is filthier, admittedly - so it takes a greater distance to reach this point of emissions equivalence.)

This means EVs cleaning things up is - at best - a long-term proposition. And if you’re throwing the vehicle away at 88,907 kilometres, which is where Mr Carlson’s Leaf is at right now, or if you’re replacing the battery, your EV is never going to be cleaner than an equivalent small petrol powered car.



Lets not get started on wind turbines what a blot on the landscape they are, not to mention a blot under the landscape when they are buried at land fill.
https://www.riteon.org.au/14000-abandon ... ed-states/

14,000 ABANDONED WIND TURBINES LITTER THE UNITED STATES - Rite-ON!


Is this the future of Britain's 'wind rush'? | Daily Mail Online

Tehachapi Pass Wind Farm | ProTenders

AAAD0C4D-8C32-4A35-B67C-C88D9FBE24D3.jpeg

21FD0BCE-4120-4E64-95B6-7D950DDC9436.jpeg


User avatar
twist
Posts: 1565
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:38 pm

Re: Electric cars let’s all rush to buy one

Post by twist » Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:05 pm

So I am all for green initiatives and being more environmentally friendly. We have spent enough decades ravaging this planet and to be honest we don’t deserve it given all the warnings the experts have given us and how we have just ignored it all and now are beyond the point of returning it back to normal so all we can do at this point is try to stop it getting any worse. Humans are basically a plague though so I don’t think we will actually manage it - but if by some miracle we do…

…EVs are not the future of vehicles and I am under no illusion that they are “greener” (they are not). This is yet another short-term idea. We already fell for “diesel cars are the future!” and it’s happening again. EVs are a stop-gap until we can get the cost of hydrogen fuel cell production down to reasonable levels and an infrastructure in place to support harnessing and conversion. I believe that’s why there’s been little investment into scaling up the EV charger network across the country to the level that we would need. I think the government and the car manufacturers know that lithium EVs are a ~10/15 year plan from now and will only waste enough money to ensure people keep buying them (until they’ve made profit on their R&D investment) until the FCEV cars can be mass produced and sold at prices closer to current ICE cars. Then they’ll say, “hey look, these are cheaper than those dirty EVs we flogged you for years!” and that’s probably how they’ll get people to switch again.
UK 1.5 DSG R-line in Indium Grey
Keyless, park assist, rear view cam, driver assist pack plus, lumbar support
Ordered: 11/12/19 / Collected 20/03/20

User avatar
Deleted user 925
Posts: 335
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2020 1:53 pm

Re: Electric cars let’s all rush to buy one

Post by Deleted user 925 » Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:26 pm

Yes, they never look at the big picture 🤷‍♂️

Nuclear power stations is another one.
They should be building waste incinerators/generators & kill two birds with the one stone 👌🧐
September 2018 1.5 tsi R-line manual,
revena blue,
black roof,
towbar.

Stitch
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 9:10 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Electric cars let’s all rush to buy one

Post by Stitch » Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:19 am

peterh wrote:
Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:24 am
The $33k quote
Here’s the official battery replacement quote from Lennock Motors in the ACT.

Australia’s grid is filthier, admittedly - so it takes a greater distance to reach this point of emissions equivalence.
Firstly, Lennock Motors have a monopoly in Canberra so the quote for $33,000 would be only an indication of the replacement costs. If old Phil looked further afield he could better that price. But that is not suggesting he has exaggerated the story, as I sure what ever the costs it is not economically supportive to go down a battery replacement path.

As for Australia's grid being filthier than Germany's - Here I have to disagree. Where Germany has more non polluting means of energy than Australia, if you look at its size and location to other polluting nations such as in Eastern Europe, this is where Australia benefits. There is not a problem with our atmosphere in Australia at the level the tree hugging brigade all think. We get more pollution from natural bush fires and dust storms than the fleet of passenger vehicles on our roads.

Australia's take up of EVs is around 1% of the under a million new vehicles per year. Some state governments offer support to go to EV's but in general that is geared to inner city journeys and not for travel between the cities.

Cleaner fuel standards will have a larger impact on pollution, once we finally have them in a few years time, but the nation matching the likes of the UK and banning diesel and petrol vehicles is like a line from the famous Australian movie "The Castle" - "Tell 'em they dreamin".
Stitch - 140TSI R-Line with the lot

User avatar
twist
Posts: 1565
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:38 pm

Re: Electric cars let’s all rush to buy one

Post by twist » Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:58 am

Stitch wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:19 am

Cleaner fuel standards will have a larger impact on pollution, once we finally have them in a few years time
Are you referring to E5/10? Or something else? I haven’t heard a whole lot about “cleaner fuel standards”. I’m pretty sure burnt fuel will always produce Co2 no matter how hard they scrub it!
UK 1.5 DSG R-line in Indium Grey
Keyless, park assist, rear view cam, driver assist pack plus, lumbar support
Ordered: 11/12/19 / Collected 20/03/20

User avatar
Pine Man
Posts: 183
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 8:57 am
Location: West Sussex

Re: Electric cars let’s all rush to buy one

Post by Pine Man » Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:42 am

'Electric cars let's rush to buy one'

Been there and got the T shirt!

The best thing about it was that I was one of the early buyers and got it at a good price. The even better thing about it was, because there was a long wait for new EVs, I got an excellent part-ex allowance for it when I bought my gas guzzling, non-eco, T Roc!
UK R-Line 2.0 TSI DSG 4M
Indium Grey Metallic Black
Lumbar Support Reverse Camera
Ordered 2/3/20
Collected 10/8/20

Stitch
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 9:10 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Electric cars let’s all rush to buy one

Post by Stitch » Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:33 pm

twist wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:58 am
Stitch wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:19 am

Cleaner fuel standards will have a larger impact on pollution, once we finally have them in a few years time
Are you referring to E5/10? Or something else? I haven’t heard a whole lot about “cleaner fuel standards”. I’m pretty sure burnt fuel will always produce Co2 no matter how hard they scrub it!
No, on the bottom of the world we have some of the dirtiest fuel standards in the world. See this article: https://www.caradvice.com.au/953496/aut ... iser-cars/
In short our current standards for unleaded petrol is between 150 ppm to 50 ppm, the new standard (to match Euro6 standard) will be a maximum 10ppm (parts per million of sulphur). Australia is currently ranked number 85 out of 100 in fuel quality in the world.
Our market is bias towards petrol more so than diesel therefore we have more dirty cars on the roads.

Due to the fuel quality here most of the manufactures are reluctant to send out the latest fuel efficient and and environmentally friendly technologies.
Stitch - 140TSI R-Line with the lot

User avatar
twist
Posts: 1565
Joined: Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:38 pm

Re: Electric cars let’s all rush to buy one

Post by twist » Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:38 pm

Stitch wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:33 pm

No, on the bottom of the world we have some of the dirtiest fuel standards in the world. See this article: https://www.caradvice.com.au/953496/aut ... iser-cars/
In short our current standards for unleaded petrol is between 150 ppm to 50 ppm, the new standard (to match Euro6 standard) will be a maximum 10ppm (parts per million of sulphur). Australia is currently ranked number 85 out of 100 in fuel quality in the world.
Our market is bias towards petrol more so than diesel therefore we have more dirty cars on the roads.

Due to the fuel quality here most of the manufactures are reluctant to send out the latest fuel efficient and and environmentally friendly technologies.
Wow, I did wonder why you guys got the older generation engines. I guess the newer ones with PPFs would choke to death on your petrol. At least you can look forward to better (well, more modern) engines in a few years.
UK 1.5 DSG R-line in Indium Grey
Keyless, park assist, rear view cam, driver assist pack plus, lumbar support
Ordered: 11/12/19 / Collected 20/03/20

Tommytwostroke
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:43 pm

Re: Electric cars let’s all rush to buy one

Post by Tommytwostroke » Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:31 pm

The French cars are unused and stored because the company that hired them out went bust, its nothing to do with the batteries. Dunno about the Leaf story but this is the internet so I would assume nothing, other than there could be more to it.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/elect ... replace%3A
Last edited by Tommytwostroke on Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tommytwostroke
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:43 pm

Re: Electric cars let’s all rush to buy one

Post by Tommytwostroke » Sat Jul 24, 2021 5:42 pm

Yep......as I suspected......more to it

https://thecarguy.com.au/nissan-leaf-battery/

Post Reply